#17 Thriving with Erica Ligenza Gwynn

Updated: Jun 3


Content Discussed: Website | Coming Up Roses Blog Podcast | THRIVE Podcast Course | BossPitch Book | Caffeinate Your Soul


Social Media: Facebook Instagram Twitter Pinterest YouTube Episode Sponsor: Lenox & Lucy

Amy Riordan 0:00 "We have to choose to not only allow ourselves to be challenged, but to allow ourselves to be changed in the process. Change isn't easy or comfy. But it is necessary for us to live the best damn lives we could possibly be living." - Erica Ligenza Gwynn Welcome to the Amy Riordan Podcast. They say owning a business is a journey in self development, so I decided to explore just that. Whether you're an entrepreneur or looking for fulfillment in your day to day life, get inspired here through interviews, life stories and proven self-help techniques. What you do with information received in this podcast is completely up to you, but if you act, you will alter the course of your life in ways you never could have possibly imagined. Let's do this. This episode is brought to you by Lennox and Lucy, a collection of handcrafted greeting cards, a company created to assist in supporting the Lupus Foundation. Purchase your greeting cards today at Lenoxandlucy.com. This web address can also be found in the show notes of this podcast. Today's interview was with Erica Ligenza Gwynn. If you haven't heard of Erica, she's actually the founder of the blog coming up roses, where she covers everything from fashion, to beauty, to relationships to entrepreneurship. Really incredible blog that you guys need to see if you haven't already. I mean, I'm just getting started. And there's so much content and she does it all herself. We also talked about the thrive podcast, which I know a lot of you have heard of. It's actually one of my favorites. And you can find as a recommendation on resources page. You guys Erica is releasing a book. It's called caffeinate your soul and you should definitely check it out. Of course, it's linked below. I know you guys are gonna love this interview. So let's get to it. Hi, Erica, thank you so much for joining us. Please introduce yourself. Erica Ligenza Gwynn 1:58 Hey Amy. Thanks. much for having me. Well, I'm Erica. I started the blog coming up roses, and the podcast called thrive. And I am also now a book author of a book called Caffeinate Your Soul: 52 Monday Mantras. So I do a little bit of everything I've been blogging since was 2013. That became my full time job in 2016. And then the podcast started, oh gosh, October of 2019. The book just came out. So I also teach a course for bloggers who are looking to monetize their influence through brand partnerships. That's called boss pitch. So that started in 2016, and has been quite fun and a totally different kind of brainwave. And then, besides all of the work stuff, I'm a wife and a mom to an 18 month old who is super fiery and feisty, and I love her to death. And yeah, that's like me in a nutshell. Amy Riordan 3:00 Wow, there's only one word for that. Wow, you've done a lot. So give us a little bit of a history. How did you get into coming up roses? Your your website? Let's start there. Erica Ligenza Gwynn 3:09 Sure. So I actually started that. When I was in college. I was, I think, a sophomore at the time. And I had been writing for an on campus fashion magazine. I was okay, but I wasn't in love with the editing process I was seeing I was putting in all of this work and all this time and feeling so passionate about what I was writing and just being really proud of my work. And then I would see something published that didn't feel like me, because of how editing was done. It was all student run editing. So I was like, you know, what, wouldn't it be cool if I could just have like total ownership over my own thing, where it was everything that I published I was proud of, and I had complete control over and I knew that I could stand behind everything that I was writing about, where it was just really just a creative extension of me. So at the time, blogging was not nearly what it is today and Instagram I don't even think exists. So it was very different than the whole world of influencer marketing today. But I started my blog then. And it started just as an inspirational thing. It was just once a week, and I was really just writing because I love to write. I hoped it would help other people too. So it kind of little by little started going from just inspirational content to some fashion, some beauty, some rent, like random other lifestyle sort of things, as they say, just that really encompassed everything that I loved. And eventually, I got my first brand Partnership, which I remember it was either the first or one of the very first it was for 50 bucks and a dress from a boutique and I thought oh my gosh, this is it. I have made like, Wow, this is so cool. So um, that kind of introduced me into the world of getting paid to create content online. And from there, it was just a wild thing. snowball into what it is today basically a slow and steady but wild at the same time sort of ride where I just started posting more and more working with more and more brands investing in myself and in what I was doing investing in equipment and photography and SEO and website design and all of that to kind of turn it into a business from a passion project. Um, so yeah, then it once I had gotten it to a place where I could make a full time income off of it, I made the decision to make it my full time job and just kind of expanded other things from there like my book that that just came out. That's actually stemmed. It stemmed from a series that was a really popular series on my blog. So it was kind of like the it was the starting ground for everything that I do today. Amy Riordan 5:51 So first comes blog, then comes podcast tell us about the THRIVE Podcast. Erica Ligenza Gwynn 5:56 So the THRIVE Podcast is really just to help women go From a life of simply surviving to thriving, it really just stemmed from the idea actually, it stemmed from my own personal experience really where I was finding myself in a season of honestly just giving myself a pity party in life where I was a work at home mom. And I was really honestly struggling with working at home full time, and also being a mom full time and trying to balance that. I mean, that's like a balancing act that no one really gives you the full scoop of before you're in it. So I was constantly feeling like I was barely surviving, and I was hanging on by a thread and everything. And I was I was lashing out at my husband and my family and I was honestly just probably a hot mess Express. And I wasn't happy. And I think I was just throwing myself a lot of pity parties thinking like, well, husband, make it all better fix, fix everything and like, everyone wanted everyone to fix everything. And in the process, I was failing to really realize and acknowledge and appreciate all of the really incredible things that I do have in my life. wasn't fully taking ownership of things that I could have and should have taken ownership of. So I kind of realized, like, you know what I'm in this season of what feels like just survival. And it doesn't actually have to be this way. I'm standing in my own way of success. So that whole thought process and the changes that I started to make, I was like, You know what, I have to talk about this with other people, because how many of us are going through tough seasons in life, where we feel like we are just surviving. And really, we could be thriving, or we could have little moments of thriving in the midst of surviving that make us feel a little bit better, or bring us a little bit more joy, so that we're not just you know, so we don't get stuck feeling sorry for ourselves and forget that we actually have choices and ownership over even the seemingly smallest of things that can make a really big difference in in the end. So that was kind of the the genesis of all of that because it was kind of my own mindset shift and reality check where I was like yoga You got to get got to get it together and then share it with other people too, because it doesn't have to be this way. Amy Riordan 8:06 You're a new mom, and you're running this podcast. Were you at this time still running the website, essentially by yourself for content wise. Erica Ligenza Gwynn 8:16 Yeah. So all the content is, is created by myself, I do have an assistant now who is oh my gosh, she's my saving grace. And she helps me with my podcasts because she helps edit for me. And so but all of the content on my website has always been and still is totally created by me. And I kind of it's went from once a week to three times a week to four times a week to five times a week. And it was at five times a week at the point where I kind of lost it. So I had to take a step back and be like, you know what this is, this is a lot to chill for a hot second and allow myself the grace to, you know, not just be this content churning machine and really just put out meaning things that, you know, it doesn't have to be Amy Riordan 9:03 So much. So is that the point that you hired this system? Erica Ligenza Gwynn 9:06 I think it was around that time. Actually it was. When was it January of 2018, maybe January 2018, or January 2019. They all have the years together at this point, Amy Riordan 9:24 Well and all the day is at this point. Erica Ligenza Gwynn 9:26 Exactly. I don't even know what day of the week it is. Amy Riordan 9:28 Right? What was the thought process behind hiring assistant because I know a lot of people struggle with, like, Am I ready for that? I mean, I kind of talk to listeners a little bit about taking the leap as far as like making your full time job, but yeah, where did you decide okay, this is the final straw. I need to outsource a little bit. Erica Ligenza Gwynn 9:45 Mm hmm. It was just so much more on my plate than I could handle by myself. And it was at the point where I felt like I was picking and choosing between essential tasks. So I realized I couldn't do that if this was going to be a successful business, it couldn't afford to do that. And it was the sort of thing where especially running a website, I think a lot of times people don't necessarily realize or fully understand what all goes into running a successful monetized platform, unless you're actually doing it yourself, because you're really you're playing, you're wearing so many different hats and playing so many different roles. I mean, I was I'm writing all of the content myself, I'm shooting it all with a photographer, I edit all of my own photos. And then you're doing search engine optimization, and you are writing all of your you're handling your own inbox, and you're acting like a manager because you're emailing with brands and negotiating contracts. You're acting like a contract lawyer sometimes and you're chasing your money. And then you're posting on all of your social media platforms to actually share your content with people and then if you want to have a successful thing, have this be your successful job. You need the audience that cares and that you have a relationship with so now you're building relationships with all of these people who are Choosing to take their time to follow you too. So it's like, there's way more tasks on that list than there are hours in a day. And at that point, I knew that the podcast was happening. And I knew I had a book in the works. So I was like, You know what, there's absolutely no way I can tack all of those things on and still do it myself. And oh, be a mom and be a wife and run a house and like, it was just too many things. So I thought, okay, the time has come, this is now bigger than just me and I need help or I'm going to lose my mind basically. Amy Riordan 11:33 Do you ever question how much different content you had on the website and whether or not you I just see a lot of people that are struggling with they have all these passions and they they don't know if they can project all of them and still be successful? Like the narrowing your niche thing is very popular right now. How do you stand on that because you seem to be very successful regardless. Thank you. Erica Ligenza Gwynn 11:55 Well, to start on the blog, I did have a lot more business related. content, I was doing some blogging posts that were about the business of blogging, I was writing content on SEO and writing content on editing pictures and all of that. And that was something that I made the decision to pretty much cut out once the course that I teach kind of took off and became successful in its own way. So I no longer post any content on my blog, really, that's teaching people how to blog or how to monetize or anything like that. It's kind of like, if that's the interest point, I have a free webinar that people can sign up for on autopilot and of course, that I teach that they can enroll in at any point. And that's it. So that kind of eliminated on all of that. And then everything else doesn't feel too random, because I still keep it pretty streamlined. And it's very just authentic to what I'm going through in my everyday life basically. So I still post the same inspirational content that I did from the start. It was still I still post the kind of content that's in my book and all of that I still post Like personal development sort of advice. And then I still post everyday Style Tips and everyday beauty tips or home or travel or just things that people are seeing if they're following along on my Instagram or Insta stories or anything like that. My goal is always for to be a very seamless transition from platform to platform where it all just feels very much like me and like something that the girls who choose to follow me can really relate to and depend on for inspiration every day or just like a boost of encouragement or a laugh, or just like you know, something relatable that is different than anything that makes them feel less than on social media. Amy Riordan 13:39 Alright, so tell us about Boss Pitch. Erica Ligenza Gwynn 13:42 So Boss Pitch was born in 2016. After this after I made the jump to become a full time blogger, and it really started because I did not see resources like this online. There were not people that were sharing their income doing what I do online, or just Talking about how to have other people do it too. It was very much like a hush hush sort of thing where it felt like you were in this like underground secret society if you made money off of the internet, so nobody knew what you did, you couldn't talk about it at family functions, because everyone thought that you were in something scandalous if you were making money on the internet. So it was something where I was like, you know, what if I could figure out how to do this, and at the time, I was 22. So I was like, if I could figure out how to do this and make a full time income off of it. And I started from nothing broke in my college dorm room, not as some like fancy rich socialite who was handed an inheritance and or a rich husband to help just live a glamorous dream was like other people could do that too. And I felt like I had a responsibility to help share what I knew, especially because my background before that was always marketing and brand strategy. So I felt like I had the kind of like both sides there where I knew where brands were coming from, and I knew what went into a successful marketing campaign, but I was also on the blogging side of things. So I really created boss pitch to be basically a bridge between the two. So that influencers can understand what brands are actually thinking and how they actually operate when they're working with bloggers, and then how to communicate with them effectively and pitch yourself for these opportunities where you're going to get paid and how to negotiate so that you get paid what you're worth and what you should be getting paid. Especially in an industry that is so dynamic and just changes constantly. It was like, I wanted to create something that could walk people through that who weren't in the same position that I was in terms of being educated on how marketing strategy world works. And there's people obviously that come from all walks of life who end up becoming bloggers who are nurses, or engineers or whatever, who have might never have been in a marketing class in their life. So that was something where I was like, You know what, I can just lend what I know here and help teach people in a way that is super easy and clear to understand, but it's really going to help people build these long lives. Relationships with brands that could hopefully change their life with paychecks and opportunities with these with these dream brands that they've always wanted to have. Amy Riordan 16:09 Your new book, Caffeinate Your Soul, give us a little bit of an overview about that project. Erica Ligenza Gwynn 16:15 So Caffeinate Your Soul has 52 Monday Mantras inside. So it's basically like a mix between a daily devotional and a self help book with, with a pretty enough cover to sit on your coffee table, so to speak. So it's kind of like a mix of three different genres, something that was really just designed to uplift your life every single Monday of an entire year. So it really kind of was born from this idea that Mondays don't actually have to be the worst. And we kind of approached them. I think that way. We look at Mondays and we all roll our eyes and we say we want to drown ourselves in a cup of coffee and we're just like, Oh, good Monday. And really, you could see As an opportunity, you know, so I always have approached things with everything really all comes down to your perspective. So no matter which way you look at it, if the glass is half full or half empty, the volume inside is exactly the same. So I wrote it as a way to change our minds about Mondays. Or really you can insert any day of the week in there. That is like your least favorite day of the week, if you have a thing against Wednesday's like that works, too. So they are like short, very easy to digest relatable mantras, essentially, that the goal is for you to read it once a week and have your week outlined in a better, more positive sort of way to have something to remember when times get tough in the week or something to challenge you something to just make you think a little bit differently so that at the end of the year, you are a better braver, kinder, stronger version of how you started the year and it's not something that happened overnight, but I don't think most likely Most good things in life do happen overnight. And that's kind of the whole point. It's not going to be a book that you necessarily you're bingeing, one Saturday afternoon, although you totally could if you want to. But it's something that's just going to walk with you on your journey of a year. And it'll make you laugh and make you think, and really just challenge you to be the better version of yourself that honestly you deserve to be. Amy Riordan 18:22 I really want to go into the tiny details now, now that we have a quick overview of your full company. Where did the name coming up roses come from? Erica Ligenza Gwynn 18:30 My mom actually thought of the name coming up roses. So my middle name is Rose. And from the get go, we were I remember we were sitting around trying to brainstorm names. And at the time, so many, like the popular thing to do with blog names was something and something. So it was like cupcakes and chocolate or like Chanel and whatever. And it was like you had to pick two names that started with the same letter. You had to be all cute and I was just not about it like I couldn't think of anything like that that clicked for me or that worked. I wanted to think of something that had just evergreen, you know, like felt evergreen and felt like I wouldn't outgrow it, and had room to grow where if my content direction changed at any point, it wouldn't all of a sudden feel like it wasn't me. So tying in the Rose element felt cool since it was actually kind of part of my name. Um, but I always loved the phrase coming up roses too, because if you think about it, it's like, not everything life. It coming up roses, people tend to think as like a positive, wearing the rose colored glasses sort of phrase where it's kind of like naive. But I don't think that's necessarily the case, because it's like every rose has a thorn, and at the same point, every Thorn has a rose. So it's just kind of something where I was always going to be creating content that was inspirational, but real and not, not not acknowledging the hardships in life and the real crap That we all go through, just that it looked, it was always just going to be something where I chose to find the good and chose to look at the more positive perspective through anything that I would go through or that and encourage others to do the same. So it really just kind of stemmed from that because I knew that no matter what kind of content I was creating, that was going to be the lens that I was creating it because that was the lens I was choosing to look through my own life with really that, you know, bad things are gonna come there will be thorns in the way but there will also be good things and flowers and things that are blossoming. And also things have seasons, you know, just like flowers. I'm not even a gardener I have like totally no green thumbs. But there are so many garden metaphors that work with this. It's like crazy, but really though it's like things have seasons. So you'll have periods where of insane growth and prosperity and you'll feel great and be flourishing and thriving, so to speak. And then there will be those periods where you feel totally wilted or like you're barely surviving. Or like you have know where you just can't find a single pedal. And you're really just struggling to keep your stem above, above the ground there, but it seasons. So the bad things come and go and the good things come and go. And you just have to choose to have hope that there will continue to be good. Amy Riordan 21:17 It's beautiful. It's feminine. It's inspirational. I feel like it encompasses everything that you're building, I mean, across the website and all platforms. So what were your biggest hurdles? When it came to business? You talked a little bit about the struggle, especially being a new mom, but what other hurdles did you have to get over? Erica Ligenza Gwynn 21:35 I think one of the biggest struggles in starting your own thing full time, especially, I want to say doing what I did in terms of blogging full time, but really, I think like any sort of entrepreneurial venture where you are calling the shots, one of the biggest struggles is that you are calling the shots and if you're not in a field, or in an industry that has a set standard, so to speak of, especially pricing And you're kind of, you know, kind of calling, okay, this is what I'm worth, and you're putting $1 sign to that, that can be really uncomfortable for a lot of people and really difficult. And especially in an industry where there is so much unknown because it is so new. And because so many people are on the same page of figuring it out as they go at the same time. That's really hard, because everyone's on totally different pages, figuring it out from different perspectives. And there is no set standard. And I think that was always one of the biggest challenges just because you're constantly confronting your worth in $1 sign sort of way, which is like not at all what we are trained to do, or hope to do or want to do as women or as people like no one wants to be like I'm worth X amount. But that's what you're doing and you're doing it every day and you're faced with people who are who don't understand and are like, no, you're worth nothing. I want you to work for free because I can't afford anything. So I think That you should just do it all for free and like, you're faced with so many things like that, where you're having to think, Okay, what makes sense? What is smart? Am I worth this? Or am I worth this? Like, how can I negotiate this or, you know, like, that's part of why I created boss pitch once. I had figured a little bit of all that out, but that's really challenging, you know, when you're constantly just thrown curveballs like that in your inbox. So I would say that that was probably one of the one of the biggest. Amy Riordan 23:32 How did you avoid comparison to other blogs and or how did you get over that; past that? Erica Ligenza Gwynn 23:38 I would say I didn't for a really long time. And I think admittedly, that's still something that I struggle with and that a lot of people struggle with. But I think at the end of the day, you really just have to realize how much more successful and really how much happier you are. When you stay in your own lane rooted in your own purpose and not worry about About her purpose or what she's doing, because I really believe that we all have different callings here. And we all have different ways that we can offer value and serve people. And for me, it really came down to sitting down and having a hard talk with myself about why why am I here? And why are my girls following me over the next girl? Like, what value do I have here? And why are they still here? And why do they come back every day? I'm clearly not the same person as the next girl. So what about me is is something that is bringing people back and it kind of gives you a little confidence boost in the same time because you're like, why am I awesome? But at the end of the day, I think that's part of what you have to do is you have to sit down and be like, No, you know what, I am funny or like I am this or I am this. And that doesn't mean the next girl is not also that but you're that in a different way because you're you and I think people forget that we all have our own essence that makes us unique and makes us special and maybe As someone that people want to listen to, or learn from, or whatever, and then when we stop being nice when we try to be the next girl, that's when people lose interest, because now we're just like everybody else, you know, like, a lot of the most successful people out there were the first of something, or they're totally different at something. And that's what makes them you know, attractive to follow along with because it's like, something different than all of the other noise on social media. So it's like it was, for me, it really comes down to continuously reminding yourself why you are different than everybody else, and why that's a good thing that you're different than everybody else. And then really just owning that and showing up every day with the intention to serve the people that you serve. And when you show up with that kind of mindset with kind of like a, like a humble servant's mindset, I try to think of it as like, Alright, how can I serve the people that are showing up for me, you just kind of naturally fall into your own your own wave because you don't have time to look at anybody else at that point because you're so busy. serving the people that you're meant to serve. So that's kind of how I kind of how I think of it. I still struggle with that I think we all do or you just get on Instagram and you're like, oh man, and then you find yourself down a down the rabbit hole, but you just have to stop yourself from doing it and just keep getting back in your own lane and creating what you're meant to create. Amy Riordan 26:19 I was struggling so bad not to yell, 'Yes,' throughout that whole entire thing, because I totally agree. I mean, it's hard though. Because like you I agree, but at the same time, it's so hard not to compare yourself. And then to like, I mean, even to you like when you popped on here, I was like, I wish I had come up with that concept. And totally jealous of you. And I think that that's also needed to be used as inspiration. And you make that very easy, because you're very genuine. But But yeah, yes, yes to everything that you just said. Erica Ligenza Gwynn 26:44 And it's a process though, too. And that's the thing. That's why I say like, I still struggle there's one day I could be on top of the world not comparing myself to another person and the next day I'm texting my best friend's like, wow, guys, I just spent four hours comparing myself to 72 different people. Did the day go? You know? And it's like but you just have to check your mood then like do you feel better when you're in your element doing you? Or do you feel better when you are in everybody else's lane watching them? And it's like, you're always gonna feel better just doing you instead of being a weird lurking bystander on the social media feed if somebody else so it's really it's just like I say this on thrive all the time. It's like thriving is not just this one thing where like, you magically get to a place of thriving and you stay there forever, and you never struggle and you never, you never fall like you're gonna have seasons. And some days you're surviving. So it's like seeing with comparison. Some days you're gonna kill it. Some days, you're gonna have to be like, you know what, sister get back on the bandwagon because you fell off and now we're four hours and then where did the day go? But you just have to keep choosing to stand back up and move past it. Amy Riordan 27:50 Personally, have you felt that this whole pandemic has actually made that harder for you or do you feel like it's it's very much the same? Erica Ligenza Gwynn 27:59 In terms of comparison? Amy Riordan 28:01 Yeah. Erica Ligenza Gwynn 28:04 Um, I would say it's probably the same unless I am using my time not in the best way. So that's kind of what I mean. And that's what it really just depends on the mindset I think that I get on to Instagram with. So it's like if I get on to Instagram and I've I'm in a board sort of place or like, you know, not necessarily being intentional with my time, then it's easy to sit there and think like, oh, wow, look at this chicks at home workout studio. Look at that, or, you know, like, you can look at the different lifestyles of these other people but I think that's kind of the same thing not in quarantine, then you're looking at their other thing, you know, you can look at you can pick it, you can cherry pick all sorts of aspects of people's lives, to think that it's better than it is. I think if anything, it maybe just gives us the time to overthink all of it more than we should, where we end up creating other people's narratives. In our head and assuming that they are true, and we think like, Oh, she must have the perfect marriage and the perfect business and the perfect car and all of these things, when we don't actually see the full picture. So if anything, I think we might all just have a little bit too much time on our hands to think into all of this. And maybe that is what fuels the comparison game for everybody. But otherwise, I think we all struggle with it from time to time, regardless of if we're in court if we're in quarantine or not. Amy Riordan 29:30 So on that note, how do you stay focused? Erica Ligenza Gwynn 29:34 I think you have to just be really actively engaged mentally when you are on a platform, I think especially happens on social media. So when you're logging onto a platform, why you're there in the first place, or being really on top of the thoughts that are coming in your head, which maybe that sounds maybe that sounds silly, but that's what works for me. Is like I have you have to catch yourself if you are watching something And you are starting to at all be pointing things back at yourself negatively. I think that's what you have to call it quits and it's time to stop because you're not in the right headspace to watch something, I think you have to be really active. And if you notice that you're just passively watching something and you're kind of like, oh, cool and move up moving right along, and you're not internalizing anything as something negative about you because of her and not making that connection. You're in a safe space. If you are somehow connecting what some random person across the country is doing, or seeing or eating or who they're with, and somehow turning that back on yourself, millions of miles away to Hawaii, how you're not enough of something, you're not in the right space and have to have to log off immediately. So I think it's kind of like just constantly checking yourself like alright, wait, Is this real? Is this true? Is this not an actual reflection of the reality of my life? Or is this something that I am projecting because of Have something that I am seeing through a screen and miles away. And just really being on top of that, and being honest with yourself when it's time to, you know, forcibly remove yourself from your iPhone, so that you can stop it in its tracks. Amy Riordan 31:15 Thank you, Erica. I'm loving this so much. So we're running low on time, but is there anything else you want to leave with my listeners? Erica Ligenza Gwynn 31:24 I have to think about this for a hot second. Um, I think in this time, especially being just with it being so uncertain in the world, and with it being quarantine and all of that, this is something that I mentioned in my book too, but I think it's just really important to get comfortable being uncomfortable, but also giving yourself grace. And I think we see both sides of that, while we're in quarantine. You see people who are kind of like, let's just binge binge Netflix and lay on the couch in our sweatpants and eat a whole roll of Oreos and like call it a day. And then you see the people who are like, no, let's get a six pack. And let's learn another language and like car pay, do you have no excuses, go, go, go, go go. And I think this is like that weird period where we're toeing the line of doing both. So don't be afraid to have both. And I guess again, have seasons in this time for your life, where one day you can get comfortable being uncomfortable and pushing yourself in a new way. And then the next day, you can give yourself grace if you're not feeling up for it. And if you just need that need that time on the couch. So it's really just about giving yourself balance in that sort of respect. And honoring what you need but also always pushing yourself for a little bit more whenever and wherever you can. Because I think it's really that wherever you can find that sort of sense of balance is kind of the sweet spot for making the magic happen in your life and growing without over burning yourself out. And being at peace without becoming complacent, so, finding that magical sweet spot. Amy Riordan 33:04 So good. Thank you so much Erica. I loved having you on the podcast. I - you've had so much to say and I feel like it's gonna enlighten our listeners to like a long way. Erica Ligenza Gwynn 33:13 Thank you. I hope so. Amy Riordan 33:14 And enjoy your time in quarantine. Erica Ligenza Gwynn 33:16 You Too! Amy Riordan 33:16 Keep us up-to-date. Amy Riordan is a weekly podcast brought to you by me, Amy Riordan. Love this podcast? Leave me a review and share it with friends. You can also find me on social media. Subscribe to this podcast for all new episode notifications. With questions, topic requests or interviewee nominations, visit AmyRiordan.com. Curious about specific content mentioned in each episode? Those details are linked below.

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